Curse

Right Hand · Jan 22, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

What weapon prefixes are most effective if you aren't using a Zealous or Vampiric mod?

Racthoh · Jan 22, 2006, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Aside from Zealous and Vampiric, the only other mod worth having is an elemental hilt. Warriors, in PvP at least not sure about PvE, will have a higher physical defense so you'll want to be dealing elemental damage to them instead. Whether or not it deals more than the 3 health you would steal from vampiric... I'm not sure. It would make sense since most warriors use Gladiator's Armour that you'd be striking against 80 instead of 100, surely 20 AL is more than 3 health steal.

Me NoFat · Jan 22, 2006, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Most people seem to be sundering haters here but I would say that "most people" are using sundering. While I agree that V and Z are often better in some areas I always have a 10/10 sundering that I use for something.

Example on where sundering is benificial. Kill a rockshot with all 3 different axe mods. In my experiance it is faster with a sundering axe.

I believe sundering to be the most underused but overated mod out there. Don't hate it until you've tested it on everything. It has it's uses.

Racthoh · Jan 22, 2006, 09:58 AM // 09:58

1 in 10 chance for it to work. After those 10 strikes, you've dealt 30 damage through vampiric. I can't see 10% dealing 30 extra damage, given that there is always the chance that you'll get that 10% on a low hit you probably won't even notice it.

Doesn't it mathematically work out to 1% extra damage over time? I just can't see it being better in any circumstance.

vncanadian · Jan 22, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

my brain :|

Me NoFat · Jan 22, 2006, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

1 in 10 chance for it to work. After those 10 strikes, you've dealt 30 damage through vampiric. I can't see 10% dealing 30 extra damage, given that there is always the chance that you'll get that 10% on a low hit you probably won't even notice it.

Doesn't it mathematically work out to 1% extra damage over time? I just can't see it being better in any circumstance.

Racthoh my math is just bad....I spent the last 1/2 hour quoting ensigns article found here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...nics-id674.php and then gave up after calculating my brains out.

I will simply say this. When I took a max 10/10 sundering fell blade out and a max 3:1 Vamp mod out for testing a while back the sundering killed the rockshots faster almost every time. Please test this. I know you know your shit and that is why I will say that I am willing to bet by all calculations you are correct but this time I would like you to try out my suggestion and brush off that 10/10 I know you have and give it a go. Test multiple subjects.

PS if you havent read the above link it will make your head spin.

Racthoh · Jan 22, 2006, 12:11 PM // 12:11

I've always just trusted what I've read here by those whom you could trust. I personally have never done the testing, I've just looked at it logically and from what top players have said. I knew there was something I wanted to do before I signed off tonight. Beat up a dummy with a vampiric and a sundering to see it for myself.

Post this here so I remember to do it tomorrow,

and thanks for the link. EDIT: Oh it's by Ensign.

From my quick testing:
16 Sword, 15 Strength (so we're looking at 25% Armour penetration), 35% sword
Wild Blow against 100 armour: 33
Wild Blow against 100 armour when sundering took effect: 39

Wild Blow against 60 armour: 59
Wild Blow against 60 armour when sundering took effect: 65

Unless that Sundering is taking effect every critical hit, every 2 attacks... I'm gonna have to go with Vampiric for more damage. Unless there is some flaw in my testing that I've missed, we're looking at the most ideal of conditions (critical, sundering takes effect so that's maximum damage), and the most extreme armour levels.

Sk8tborderx · Jan 22, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Personally I like using a furious mod, that extra adrenaline helps a lot.

Me NoFat · Jan 27, 2006, 01:44 PM // 13:44

My testing was suggested by a guild mate. Here is what I did.

Sword only....25 swings without any skills used at all. Add damage and divide for an average. I have done this 2 times now and both times against the devourer (sp) outside of the rock west enterance. Easy to get there and nothing else to distract. Both times sundering won the battle for me. It is possible that I just had a streak of goodluck with my 10% bonus but I doubt it. Since I no longer have the figures I will perform the test again soon and post it here. I only play on weekends so we are looking at Monday or Tuesday.

BTW I just started wondering (never paid attention) when you get the 10% for a 10/10 sundering and you are in a group of creatures with an axe performing cyclone does the 10% apply to every one of the creatures like the vamp bonus would?

striderkaaru · Jan 27, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Aside from Zealous and Vampiric, the only other mod worth having is an elemental hilt. Warriors, in PvP at least not sure about PvE, will have a higher physical defense so you'll want to be dealing elemental damage to them instead. Whether or not it deals more than the 3 health you would steal from vampiric... I'm not sure. It would make sense since most warriors use Gladiator's Armour that you'd be striking against 80 instead of 100, surely 20 AL is more than 3 health steal.

i would venture to disagree partly with this. elemental hilts do have their uses, but it's more situational. you have to keep in mind that rangers and elementalists usually have extra armor against elemental damage. so, you'll have to remember to switch out to a different weapon when going against them.

also, at least as a hammer user, i believe that a 10% furious haft is also a good choice. it's not for the damage, but for the chance to knock someone down faster. if damage is your main focus, then there will be better choices. however, if your knockdown chain is what's important, being able to land that faster will be a lot more useful.

Rhuobhe · Jan 27, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54

I also like furious. When I'm in a situation where I can't deal too well with -1 energy/health degen, Furious seems to be the way to go.

Unlike elemental hilts which may actually hurt you at times (rangers, eles, even monks with certain armor), a furious hilt (sundering too) is always helpful and has no downside. Of course if you are not using adrenaline skills, then it is completely useless.

I do PvE largely so I don't worry too much about what is the real advantage/disadvantage in PvP situations.

4runner · Jan 27, 2006, 08:12 PM // 20:12

on all my axes i use a furious and Fortitude, for the adrenal do keep in mind that im an adreanl warrior. Sundering i feel doesnt do the job all that well. I use a vampiric +15 in stance for farming 3/1 w/fortitude! cyclone plus vampiric plus 10+ enemies mean +30 health per swing of cyclone, pretty nice!

Also the furious on a +15^50 is just awesome, as well as my +20v50% sephis axes, never really used a sundering!!!

Furious FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Problem with vampiric is the health degen, and with conditions and hexes your in Deep Kimchee! lol!
mending or a monk? I choose monk!!

Me NoFat · Jan 28, 2006, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4runner

Problem with vampiric is the health degen

With multiple wpn slots this should never be a problem. If you have a 3:1 vamp mod then you gain 3 health every time you hit. There are fractions posted but for simple math I will slow down

a W sword/axe swing to once every 2 seconds. Now our health degen -1 every second. So with those poorly altered (not in our benifit) calculations you still gain 1 point of health every two seconds when fighting.

{the sword swing is a little faster and the degen is a little slower so our health gain is actually more}

When not fighting change to something without a vamp mod. Not to mention you get extra damage from the vamp mod making you kills faster.

vancha · Jan 29, 2006, 10:02 PM // 22:02

i say icy mod.

combine it with spinal shivers and woooooh good bye casters

djfatben · Jan 29, 2006, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me NoFat

With multiple wpn slots this should never be a problem. If you have a 3:1 vamp mod then you gain 3 health every time you hit. There are fractions posted but for simple math I will slow down

a W sword/axe swing to once every 2 seconds. Now our health degen -1 every second. So with those poorly altered (not in our benifit) calculations you still gain 1 point of health every two seconds when fighting.

{the sword swing is a little faster and the degen is a little slower so our health gain is actually more}

When not fighting change to something without a vamp mod. Not to mention you get extra damage from the vamp mod making you kills faster.

Actually, as I understand it, -1 pip is actually effective -2 per second. So your net gain is slightly above zero, but you're doing +3 damage to your attackee (it's a word now) and more if you use a faster hit stance.

Amsterdam · Jan 30, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by vancha

i say icy mod.

combine it with spinal shivers and woooooh good bye casters

...If you are a necro second profession.

Rogmar · Jan 31, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

i would venture to disagree partly with this. elemental hilts do have their uses, but it's more situational. you have to keep in mind that rangers and elementalists usually have extra armor against elemental damage. so, you'll have to remember to switch out to a different weapon when going against them.

Elementalists have 75 Armor vs. Elemental, assuming they are the same element you picked
Rangers have 100 unsituational as druids, since thats the popular one, 115 if they have elemental armor which is rare
Fighting Elementalists isnt bad because of the chance that they don't have the same elemental armor as your weapon and even if its right, only 75 armor
Fighting Rangers would be like fighting a warrior with physical, not too bad either
It pretty much evens out, would you rather specialize against rangers or warriors, i would say warrior because others will have more trouble taking out the high armored warrior.
But of course you can bring 2 weapons.

TheArrow · Jan 31, 2006, 02:37 AM // 02:37

Sundering averages out to approximately .3 damage more per swing. Utter trash to me. But if I have to go with a non-Zealous or Vampiric, then probably Furious. I don't really like putting an elemental upgrade on a weapon for a PvP only character because I can only bring 2 different sets of weapon/off-hand.

BBoy_Manchild · Jan 31, 2006, 04:12 AM // 04:12

when farming i use furious then switch to vamp when glads is on, even when there are like 5-6 enemies around me i can still get bonneti with 1 cyclone axe

LifeInfusion · Jan 31, 2006, 05:33 AM // 05:33

CHEAP
Cruel-axe
Crippling/Barbed -Sword
Cruel-Hammer

HARD TO FIND
Furious-(all)

Only if no vampiric/zealous